Jim Pelz: Starting Over at 35 — Reinvention, Resilience, and the Real Business of Gigging

Moneygigs is supported by tryfloral.com T-R-Y-F L-O-R-A-L.com themoneygigs To get your discount, Tryfloral produces THC beverages. They come in 2.55 and 10 milligram varieties in all sorts of flavors. I have one prior to my gig and everything is so smooth. Visit T R Y F-O-R-A L.com themoneygigs that's tryfloral.com them money gigs and get your discount. He started as a jazz trombonist in Boston, moved to Cincinnati, and then a rare neurological condition robbed him of his embouchure. Instead of quitting, he picked up the guitar and basically started over at 35. Today, Jim Pelz plays the gigs he wants, says no to the ones he doesn't, and has somehow made more money from music this year than ever.

I'm your host, Cliff Adams, and this is the Money Gigs podcast. Why don't we start off with sort of your baseball card? Who is Jim Pelz and what does he do?

You know, like yourself, right? I mean, we're in our 50s. I got a couple years on you, but yeah, started out, I took piano lessons when I was a kid. Loved music, just from day one, love music. Piano lessons wasn't doing it for me, but picked up the trombone. And I think early on when I came to Cincinnati, maybe you knew me as a trombonist and had ideas of what that trajectory would be. I also played guns guitar for my own, you know, amazement and, but enjoyed that. And so that, you know, one was kind of a jazz bas thing, one was rock. Stepped out into the professional world, you know, from Boston, moved to Cincinnati 30 years ago, and it's just been a constant evolution.

So where at one time I was a jazz trombonist, you know, in Boston, all of a sudden, decades later, I'm a bluegrass guitarist. I had some chop problems in my mid-30s. You know, I have musical ability, I have musical knowledge, and it would be a shame to lose that. So I just kind of shifted over to the guitar in my mid-30s. And so by 35, that was the first I had played a gig on the guitar. So I started out jazz trombonis. Now I'm a guitar player that occasionally sings. And it's been a long process of evolution in between. Like you say, domestically, musically, professionally, whatever all that means.

Was that some sort of a watershed moment for you where trombone wasn't working out? Was it out of necessity. What were the emotions like making that transition?

Well, I. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. You know, that thing where you're so passionate about a thing. The issue was called focal dystonia. It's a diagnosis that I think has, you know, gained prominence over the last couple of decades. I think at one point, it just wasn't understood. I'd hear about guys that lost their chops and no one knew why. And looking back now, I think that's a likely diagnosis for them. But, of course, it was a very painful situation at the time on top of whatever was happening. So, like, what would happen is the horn one day would work, one day it wouldn't.

I did that for weeks. Remember one day just getting so frustrated that practicing, just trying to do my due diligence, and it wasn't working, and I got frustrated and I kicked the trombone stand, which bounced off the wall and hit my trombone slide, put a big dent in it. I was like, this isn't fun as much as everything. This. I'm not having fun. Like, what am I doing? I like the guitar. And then I didn't even think about the guitar at first. I was like, well, maybe saxophone. Maybe get back to piano. And I was like, I already play guitar. Like, the wiring, the framing is there.

Put so much time to this. I had a vision for what it should be. And of course, that means nothing when you're on the track because the vision changes, the goals change. And then all of a sudden, it changed again. But making the shift to the guitar in my 30s opened up a new way of existing in music because it was like chapter two for me. And I felt grateful for that. I knew there was, you know, if I'm 35, taking my first gig, man, you know, there are guys that play rings around me everywhere. Whereas a trombonist. I put a lot of pressure on myself, professionally, personally, you know, to be the very best that I could.

And I couldn't much enjoy a lot of what I did. I couldn't listen to anything I recorded and like it. And by the time I got to playing out, and there were a lot of nerves by the time I got my feet on the guitar, I was a different person, you know, musically, of course, but just a different person approaching it because, like, oh, this is great.

I'm wondering, did you have a decent support system at all when you were going through that, or were you on your own?

I mean, I would say yeah. And I had a young son, and my focus was on him. But my mom was great. My brother, my friends were great, you know, and I guess one of the things that it taught me. And maybe this makes sense to you. As a gigging musician, you're part of a scene. As a trombonist, I was part of a scene. And after making the transition, you realize that, like, some of them were your friends and some of them were workmates. And I never really thought about that. My friends were very supportive and the scene moved on as it does. Yes, I would say I had the support that I needed.

Well, that's good. That's good. That's important. And you keep mentioning in our notes and our exchanges, you mentioned the word fun, the importance of having fun in what you're doing. It's resonating with me. So let's turn the page. What are you looking to accomplish now? Are you out gigging a bunch? Are you looking to do original stuff? What's in the things coming up for Jim?

Well, you know, again, we're. We're in our 50s. And you. I've kind of had a shift because the mandate for a working musician, like someone that wants to be called someone that wants the approbation of their peers and colleagues, is you take every gig. You don't say no. That's just the law. In my 50s, as I get close to 60, I say no if it's not going to be fun or something. That, like I said, I think that challenges me, that interests me, and that lets out a lot of work that I might get called for, you know, or pursue. But that's okay because in the process of getting to almost 60, I found the benefit, I guess, of spending time outside or spending time, you know, it doesn't have to be all music all the time.

And career wise, like, why hit it so hard now? You know, like enjoy life a little bit and let that enjoyment seep into the music. So there's that. I have projects that I do that I really enjoy, and if I don't enjoy it, I wouldn't continue it. I have two CDs in the works, and so that's my interest, to enjoy the work that I do and to stay creative. And that means original music to the extent, you know, and that's. That's a whole other issue. I want to stay creative. I want to keep moving forward. So I had a lot of material. If I could, you know, get funding for a box set of music, I would put out four CDs of music.

And, you know, that would be suicide just professionally, but I just recorded Two albums worth of music. And at first I was kind of like, do I want to put out a double album? Do I want to cherry pick and just have one strong album? But it's like, I'll do that. I'll put out first album, and I've got the basic tracks for the second one already recorded, but I'm focusing on the first, and then after that, just keep moving, keep putting out music.

What kind of genre are we looking at with you? It could be anything.

It's largely rock. The last two solo CDs that I did were what I would call country rock. I love that, you know, kind of Gram Parsons or Emmylou Harris or any of those. This one was just going to get more back to my roots in terms of rock. There might be five or six chords and not just three. There's some rock in there's some acoustic stuff, there's some jazz stuff. Ish. You know, my take on jazz. And part of the enjoyment for me in that is that I'm just using different groups of people, you know, so guys that you know around town, Aaron Jacobs and Jason Smart in one line, or Aaron and Devin Lee and bbg, you know, just Jim Carnelly's on a couple things.

It's just fun to present material to friends who happen to be amazing musicians, get together, let them do their thing, and then. Then I go in and kind of hash it all out. So it's all over the place.

So it sounds like a lot of fun. So we Talked about the CDs, any public performance, what comes to mind.

You know, Covid was a big game changer. I was teaching and gigging up to that. And then Covid hit, and that was a point where it's like, you know, I didn't want to teach as much as I was, and teaching had all fallen away anyway, so I got a day job, bought a house, and kind of realized I enjoyed having week. You know, like, a lot of guys our age were kind of like, that was all right, you know, let's spend time with the family. And so I've got the Almond Butter Band, which is our tribute to the Allman Brothers. And we do maybe four or five, six gigs a year.

We've got one coming up in at the Redmoor on April 18. I play with Tyler Christopher, who is a. Does a tribute act to Elvis. And it's wonderful. Some amazing musicians on there. I have a church gig that I enjoy. And then whatever else comes along that seems interesting and I can say yes.

To that's Fantastic you're doing, I think you said one to three gigs a.

Week and I'm including the church services in that.

So actually, and you've answered this before in our, in the prep, you know how you decide to take gigs, you talked about focusing on the performance situation, whether it's going to be fun. There's that word again. You know, it needs to be musically challenging. And then obviously the other musicians that are involved, whether you gel with them or you just mentioned it having those different combinations on the CDs that you're doing. When we talk about income, which is so important, you just bought a house, but you also have a day job, one thing I found is that domestication put me in a position of not just to choose which gigs I want to take, but how I approach the gig.

When you got the day job and you had free weekends and all of a sudden you're kind of able to breathe, did that impact your music?

Yeah, I would say so. You know, let's say pre Covid and I'm teaching and gigging and most of those gigs were enjoyable. But whatever shows up, you take. And I'm not an IT guy, I work in a warehouse, but that's stable and so yeah, it's easier to. The only thing I really stress out about now is the load, right parking and the load in, but that's it. And I know I'm going to show up and enjoy what I'm doing. I know who I'm working with and there's very little nerves or stress or anxiety regarding that. When I was playing trombone, I had a gig bag, maybe a bag full of mutes and that was my load.

In some bands we had the PA system to get there early and set up. Now it's just me, an amp, sometimes ant, sometimes it's in ears and you know, all of that. So the physicality of it doesn't bother me so much as like, can I bring a cart? Do they have steps? Logistical stuff, that's where my head goes.

Let's talk about the business thing. How do you keep track of what you're making and income and things like that.

So I've gotten better at finances over the years and especially, you know, the last 10, especially since having a kid, I'd say I keep track of things more, you know, receipts, mileage, tax related stuff, write offs. Having the day gig now I don't worry about the finances of the music thing as much. And ironically, I think this past year I probably made. Made more musically than I have in my life, you know, and that's with a full time day job. And I think part of it is driving in a place where I get those gigs and don't have to do a lot of the other hustling, you know.

But I'm also just trying to, you know, I do a budget. I more or less stick to the budget. I'm aware of where my finances are. I put little bits aside to save for things in advance and can't say I was doing that, you know, 20 years ago.

Are you like tracking everything in a spreadsheet or you have some sort of using QuickBooks or some tool?

I have, you know, on my phone I got my notes and I keep a list of what's coming up. Like it might as well be a notebook and a ballpoint pen, but achieving the same thing.

Have you ever been surprised by what a gig actually paid? Have you ever gone into something and you say expecting a certain amount of money or expecting a certain situation and then you realized, oh, it's not that,.

Not recently because that. It just seems like I'm doing less gigs, they're more focused and going into them, I usually have a sense of what, you know, what I'm getting paid. We're playing for tips because there's no one out there.

Is there a gig you wish you'd turn down? Is there any time a situation you've been in where you wish, I wish I had turned this down.

Yes. It's again, that thing where someone calls for a gig and, yeah, okay, I'm not working. Sure, I'll take that. And it's six months later. Great, yeah, perfect. I've got something on the books. And then as it gets closer, like, oh, we need to rehearse. And here are the. We don't have charts. But you have to learn all this. Well, I'm a chart guy. Like, I'll write out the charts, but the questions start arising and then it's like, man, I wish I'd said no like six months ago. But that's one more thing. You know, doing less gigs keeps it fun. And not that's a career path, but at this point, okay, I know who I'm working with, I know what we're doing, I know we're getting paid and it's all good.

Do you ever feel like you've left money on the table, you accepted something and you got into the gig and you determined, oh, there's a lot more. I could have gotten more if I had negotiated more, if I had seen more of the parameters.

For me to enjoy what we're doing, I have to let some of that go and just learn the lesson. Right? You know, which I think is why we can sit and talk now. And I can tell you why I do things differently, because you can definitely go on there, like, oh, I didn't know they had that kind of money.

There's two things I'm taking away, and one of which I've been part of. I had a day gig as well. And so my need to take control or to be more mindful of my financial circumstance with respect to the gigs was nil. Like, take it or leave it. I didn't need to care. But I look back and I ask myself, should I have? And because the net sum of the emotion I leave the gig with bleeds into my domestic life. It bleeds into everything else. And so whether it's pay or tips or crowd or fun or the other musicians, whatever it is, I'm leaving that circumstance with accumulation, a culmination of that feeling.

If I got paid $300, but it was a crappy gig, and I had to play all about that Basics, times to couples in front of me trying to eat their steak. But I love what you said. Let it go and learn the lesson. So you've probably had times where you're juggling multiple opportunities. Do you have that problem? And if so, how do you compare them?

I would say not so much anymore. Again, just. It's not a marriage made in heaven in that we're doing something often with an artistic bent, and we start to learn the profession. We start to learn the necessities of, like, okay, this is a practical gig to take. This is not my dream. But it gets me there. You know, whether it's networking, whether it's experience, whether it's pay, and then there's the practicalities, like, you're describing very well. I mean, the closest I can think of is, see, I got called for a gig in November, which I would have loved to do. Can't do it. Gonna be on vacation.

And in the past, I might have struggled with that, you know, but I'm on vacation, you know, I got money put into that. I got time put aside for that. It's good for my soul. And that will come out. Like you said, you know, what we take out of the gig, we take home. And what happens at home, we take to the gigs.

When you talk about that insecurity and preparation and imposter syndrome you even pointed out, can you. Can you expand on that a little bit.

If you're sensitive, it's easy to be insecure because you're observant. And I'll just say, switching to another instrument in my mid-30s, like, Don Galk is an amazing player. There's no way, if I'm going to go note for note, he's going to come out the winner. I don't think of it like that now. I can't. But, you know, what am I doing here? Like, Dawn's out there in the world, Dave Reidenhower's out there in the world. But there's so much more to it than that. And so it's that weird thing of. To be a functioning artist, if you want to use that word. You have to have an ego to present what you have to the world.

You also have to have humility. Do most people know how do you balance that? So. So, yeah, the imposter thing is like, we're doing the Allman Brothers saying, like, what am I doing singing Greg Allman's parts? No one seems to mind. So, okay. I guess I'm doing okay. You know, it's that thing when you start out performing stage fright. I had terrible stage fright. And you learn that, like, no one wants to see you fail. Like, the tomatoes. That's cartoons, you know, it's just the nerves. I don't get performance anxiety. In fact, I would rather be on stage than most other situations because I feel capable, you know.

But there's still that thing of, like, I'm recording 12 songs for the CD. Is it any good? It's a balancing act. And for the most part, I just kind of bluster through and then deal with the fallout of, like, okay, I haven't been, you know, kicked off stage yet. No one's throwing a rotten tomato at me, so let's just proceed that's not going to happen tonight. And then you get up there and say, oh, this is really fun. You know, why did I think like that? Why do I do that to myself? I wish I knew.

Well, I share a lot of these sentiments. The one phrase I'm struggling with, as you said, no one seems to mind.

It's an interesting thing. And it's just. It's one of those things. I'm glad we're talking about it because there's a lot of perceptions that we hold as musicians. There's a lot of perceptions of musicians that are cinema in some ways. You know, they. They don't.

Wow.

Recognize the real world. So I can tell you, like, I have decent time. I have good Intonation. When I'm on the bandstand, I'm there to make everyone else sound as good as they possibly can. I don't feel like I need to be the center of attention. I'm already singing an Allman Brother song. You know, it's about the collective. And so, yeah, it's understood that, like, well, we're all here. Everyone's got the ability for. One of the things I have to do is kind of walk myself back where I'm like, I don't sound like. Fill in the blank. I don't sound like so and so all my heroes or whoever.

And then you're like, well, they don't sound like each other either. Sound like themselves. And like, all right, I guess I sound like myself, and I guess that's okay.

I want to thank you so much for talking with me today.

Yeah, Cliff, thanks for thinking of me. Let's do some playing.

Yeah, man. Ciao. Ciao. Jim lost his instruments, started over at 35, and somehow ended up having more fun and making more money for music than ever before. I think there's something in that for all of us, the willingness to let go of what isn't working and find the thing that is. If this conversation resonated with you, please, like, subscribe and leave a review wherever you're listening. It genuinely helps other musicians find the show. You can also support the podcast directly through the link in the description. And if you're a gigging musician looking to take more control of your gigs and your income, download themoneygigs. The link and the invite code are in the description as well.

Until next time, know your worth.