From Ukraine to the Viper Room: How Konstantin Moyseyev Built a Drumming Career on 100 Hours and a Spreadsheet

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You're listening to the Money Gigs podcast, real conversations with working musicians about the business of playing music. I'm your host, Cliff Adams. My guest today is Konstantin Moyseyev, a full time drummer based in San Diego county, originally from Ukraine, where rock and roll simply didn't exist when his family immigrated to the United States. He describes it like a gauntlet being dropped. Everything he'd been kept from, funk, blues,.

Rock, hit him all at once.

And he's been chasing that feeling ever since. Konstantin plays with Crescent Blue, a San Diego original music project with a slow burn approach, recording and releasing singles one at a time. And he's the kind of musician who kept a spreadsheet tracking every gig, every hour, every dollar, until the network he built made the spreadsheet unnecessary. We talk about how he decides whether to take a gig. His two category system for evaluating venues before he even walks in. Why opportunity almost always beats pay. And the moment a corporate layoff became the best thing that ever happened to him. Let's get into it.

I'm so excited to talk to you. I think we found each other on a Facebook group, a Los Angeles musicians group. Is that correct?

Yes.

Yeah. I will do promotion on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. So I'll get your handles later and we'll collab on that and come kind of blow up. So does all that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. Sounds great.

So, baseball card. Who are you? What's your instrument? I know you're a drummer. How long have you been playing and what's your role in Crescent Blue?

I've been playing for a total of probably over 30 years, I would say, but it's a little bit of a rocky trip because there was a period in time when I didn't play. I mean, I've always been a drummer, but sometimes if you don't play behind the kit, you're still a drummer. But I've been playing almost all my life. So I came from a musical family and it was always in my blood and so there was always music around the house. And I'd follow both my dad and my older brother like a little puppy dog, you know, when it came to music and try to absorb as much as I. As I can from them. And then the drums found me. I didn't find the drums. It just really kind of resonated. You know, when you learn a language, you don't always understand how you actually understand the language. So it was the same thing for me. And, you know, and every instrument is a language, so this one I speak fluently and it spoke to me. And so, yeah, and as far as, you know, my. My role in Crescent Blue, I mean, I. I have been there, the drummer, from the beginning. It was a project that started out as, hey, let's see what we can do. We have a bunch of songs and we would like to record them. That's always risky because everybody's a songwriter, as you know, and so when they record, it doesn't always come out right. This particular group, we sat down and I think we had three scratch recordings just to say, let's give it a try. Can you come up with the drum parts for these songs? I said, sure. I. I actually thought, yeah, the songs are pretty good. And then the four of us just came together and it was just magic. I mean, it was just from the first note, it seemed like we played together for 20. I really enjoy playing with those guys. And they have advertising aside, they. They've only released two songs, but they've got about 12 that are in the hopper, so to speak. They'll be coming out really one by one, all singles. And they're all really good and has nothing to do with me. It just means I'm just. I get to be a part of it. But yeah, they're very talented musicians and it's not something that's flying right now. It's. It's a slow burn with Crescent Blue. They're playing in venues that are here and there, but it's really about recording and releasing music. So anyway, that's. That's my long winded answer. And as far as who am I? I was originally from the Ukraine. I was born there, came to the United States with my family. I was, I was about nine years old and just entered in the world of music because in the former Soviet Union, we didn't have rock and roll. We didn't have privy to listening to listen to funk and blues. It was just folk music and whatever it was that they forced upon us on the radio. But as soon as we came to the United States, it was. The gauntlet was just on for me in terms of everything that I heard and every kind of genre and every kind of sound and tone. And I was just mesmerized. I didn't realize that this existed. So I, to this day, I still am that kid. When I hear great music, it doesn't matter if it's someone that's a local artist at a coffee shop or if it's someone that I'm, you know, listening to on Spotify or Pandora or whatever it may be. I still feel the same way. You know, good music is just good music regardless. And I'm still on. On that search. As in the old show Kung Fu, David Carriage would say, you know, on that path, on that search, I'm still on it. And I'm always looking for that perfect sound, that perfect tone, that groove. And I can't figure out what it is. But Cliff, if I figure it out, I promise I will tell you. But it has me. It has me perplexed in a good way. So that's basically it. I play everywhere. There are three different types of musicians, right? So there's the musician that plays for one consistent band. The second type is a musician that gets. Is a session worker that gets hired on a sort of circulatory basis by a certain artist or a band. And then the third one is you just basically are free for all. You know, you're like, hey, I'm available. Here I am. I could play at your gig. Send me the, you know, send me your charts or whatever. I've kind of done all three and I continue to do all three and it's been interesting and I've learned a lot and I probably have grown because of that.

That's fantastic. I want to loop back on some of the things you said. Grew up in a musical home. I'm curious, was it dad only or was mom also musical?

No, my dad was a pretty well known musician back in the in our former homeland. He wrote a couple of songs that I think maybe even today are still being played. They're like folk songs.

Can I get his name?

Yeah, it's Yefim Moyseyev. So same last name. Like myself and Y E F I M. Yeah, he was definitely well known back. Back there. And then when we came to the United States, the people that immigrated from that area to Los Angeles knew who he was. So, I mean, he basically immigrated to a homegrown audience, so to speak.

Yeah.

And then my older brother was, you know, following in the footsteps. He played the saxophone and did a little singing. So I had, again, it was right in front of me.

I mean, literally, we have that in common. So my son is 14, perfect pitch. He's really musically talented. My dad was also musical. I was musical, My brother also. But I often find the moms get left out and it's a thing. Yeah. Did you have that where mom was like, hey, I went in on this conversation too. What was that like?

Not at all. Literally. I mean, she loved music in terms of listening to certain songs and she kind of just grew up with it, you know, because of my dad. But no, she had no musical ability whatsoever and never pretended to do so. But she also loved it enough to where she understood that it was a unique talent to have and you have to preserve it.

So still an advocate and a supporter and an enthusiast. Yeah, we're fortunate. My wife does sing and she's from Peru, so it's great. But that's good to know. You said something else that really hit for me. The energy in the studio. When you're practicing in a basement with your band and when you're performing live, those things are uniquely different. But when you get in the studio, what happens to people? I did that. You go in and I remember one of the musicians, I was in a studio With. And we had the same thing. A batch of originals went in to record to kind of. For me, it was a prosperity thing. We've been doing this for so many years. Let's get something together. But clamming up, nervousness, perfectionism. Is that what you saw?

Yeah, for sure. Because it never sounds like it does in your head. I mean, it just never does. And this is a huge problem with. I don't care what level of professional level. I don't even know how to say it, but whatever professional level or semi professional level a band is at, you're only as good as the sum of your parts. So you know when someone writes a song and then you have someone especially who is the lead, they can't sound like they do in their head. And then they clam up, like you said, and it's just weird. It's a weird thing. However, it depends on the environment that set the expectations that are set beforehand. And I think some of the best results come from. No pressure. Some of them come from, we'll see what happens. Let's just record it and let's lay it down. And then not being egotistical enough to go, I think we can do something different. And I think that's what happened on my end with. With the Crescent Blue guys is. Is, you know, were able to kind of just all equally, you know, critique certain parts, obviously, especially our own, and then come back and go, okay, I think we can do better here and here. And that's kind of what happened. But I realized that's a rarity because most people that get together and they've been playing, you think you're playing for 20, 30 years, your own instrument in your own way, you know how you sound, right? Just like your. And then you get together and when you put your voice behind a microphone in the studio for the first time, you're like, that doesn't sound like me.

Right.

I don't even know what.

The environment in and of itself is different. There's carpets and there's all sorts of. There could be, like, operation lighting, you know, Whereas most of our environments are dimly lit. I find walking into a studio that's lit up like Christmas can be distracting too. But you talked about coming from Ukraine, and what I got from that is like, it was letting a horse out of the gate. You know, if you put a horse in the gate long enough, when you. When you leave open the gate, the horse runs. And that's definitely what you've been doing. Because you said you play two or Three times a month, plus recording. When a new gig offer comes in, what's the first thing that makes you say? I need more info when you're approaching a gig.

So my number one focus, my number one rule, regardless of who I'm playing with, is obviously the venue, right? So the biggest challenge is sound overall, just in general. So I need to know, I need more information on what kind of sound system they have. Is there going to be a sound guy there? What inputs are there? You know, how are they typically micing people up? Believe it or not, I always want to go online. I want to see pictures. Is the. Is the venue. Does it. Do they have wood? This is going to sound weird, but wood absorbs sound and it makes it much more sound friendly. It has. If it has a lot of, let's say, like a. Like a cement floor, sound's gonna bounce off. And if you're a perfectionist like me, you know, regardless of who you play with and how long you play, how you sound is more important than what you're playing. And so I've learned that lesson the hard way. And now the first thing I ask is about sound. I want to know what the back line is. I want to understand, you know, what the. The square footage is. You know, is it like, again, is it a venue that is made for music? And my rule, Cliff, is I have two. I separate venues in two categories. The first category is a lot of the listeners here will definitely understand that is it's a bar or lounge that has live music. The second venue is it's a musical venue that has a bar. So. So it's the. If it's the first one, which is a lot of musicians will, hey, there's nothing wrong with it, you know, it pays, right? Some. Some places pay pretty well. If it's. If it's category one, you better find out what the stage looks like. You better find out if, you know, there's carpet, if there's wood, if. If there's a sound guy, category two, you're probably going to be okay because you're going to get a proper sound check done. You know, you're going to show up before doors open and it's going to be done right.

You're doing an interesting thing there. I think, about the objective of a bar, restaurant gig. You said it pays, but also it's a chance to take the dog for a walk, get that product that you have out there. But you're also trying to leverage that to get to category two, right? And so if something's incorrect. And it's generally, it's interesting how much your awareness brings you control of those aspects.

Yes.

So that's really important.

It is. And, and I think if you're a musician who is typically getting hired or if you prefer to be hired by other artists, right. For gigs. Right. Maybe, maybe you're a semi session musician or maybe you're a professional. It's super important to know somewhere along the way when you're interviewing these people, because you have to interview them as much as they interview you. And maybe you came as a referral. You've got to ask those questions. I don't care if you're a drummer, I don't care if you're a guitar player. It doesn't matter. You have to ask those questions because what it usually means, and I've seen this myself, bass player comes in and they're, you know, they're packing heat in their van. They've got their bass amp, they've got every kind of, you know, input imaginable, but they can't use it. And they walk in and it wasn't even discussed at rehearsal. They walk in and they go, this is where you plug in. And they can't hear themselves. They can't, they can't hear the way that, they can't hear themselves the way that they do. They can't hear the vocals. And it ruins the entire experience. And it might even ruin your relationship with, you know, that particular artist or band. It's the biggest challenge. And I feel it's never discussed. I feel like it's always, what's the set list? How long are we playing?

Where do I park?

Where do I park? Do we get food? You know, I feel like you get that those category one gives you so many things that you need as a musician. It gives you stage hours, it lets you work on your stage muscles, it lets you, like you said, walk the dog. And even just kind of maybe test out a couple of things, maybe do a couple of originals, see how it flies. You can work on anything you want. You can also ruin the entire experience easily within about the first two songs if you don't sound right. And so it's worth showing up a little early. It's worth doing the homework like I do now. I always ask those questions, what's the venue? Where is it at? I go on Google, I go on social media, and I just look and listen and try and get as much information as I can. As a drummer, it's crucial because you're Driving the song. And if I can't hear myself or if I can't hear the bass, this is not good. So it takes work, but you got to know your surroundings.

Yep, definitely. I've been on those in ear monitor gigs, only in casinos, which were just so disconcerting. And I knew as a keyboard player, I'm used to hearing myself in headphones, but as a drummer, I just knew that was going to be a challenge. But couple things, you're. You're not only a horse out of the gate. I'm going back to that Evolving from Ukraine because you're also treating things very like, with a certain amount of precision, as though those things are precious. And I also, I'm wondering if that evolved from that upbringing and how that came about. And secondly, have you read How Music Works by David Byrne? There's a whole chapter in there about sound and the different places he played and how the acoustics of things caused modifications to how he set up. Do you think that upbringing and where you're coming from contributes to the. And maybe those glasses contribute to the razor sharp attention you have on sound?

Well, first of all, thank you for the book recommendation. I'm actually getting that book and I've never even heard of it and I'm getting it. I'm already excited to read it. I love David Byrne and everything that he continues to do. To answer your original question, I think upbringing has a lot to do with. I call it just the respect for music in general. Music is very personal to me and if it's not perfect, then I'm not doing it justice because of the fact that when I came here. Yeah, overall, yeah, I think it's still, to this day, I treat it the same way. I know I mentioned when we just kind of started talking, like, if it's not perfect, in my opinion, and I'm a perfectionist first and foremost on myself, then I don't. I feel like I'm not respecting whatever it is that I'm doing. And so upbringing has a lot to do with it because I saw how hard my dad had to work just to earn a living. I also started playing music at a young age, you know, as a teenager with it, with a group in the 80s that tells you how old I am, that really, you know, took off and they, God, it was so difficult for, you know, 16, 17 years old. It was a grind. And I mean, really, it's so, so difficult if you're in category one and you're playing at a bar. And that's what you do on a Saturday and you've got a three hour set. I respect you. I don't care how good you are, just getting up on stage, getting up there and doing your thing. I respect you. And if you respect music, you will do well. If you don't respect music, you're just not gonna end up lasting for a long time because it's a grind. So yeah, to answer your original question for sure, it was my upbringing because if I grew up probably in the United States or if I was born in the us I probably wouldn't look at music the same way. It's truly an honor for me to really look at and be able to play songs. Sometimes I play covers a lot, right. So the songs that I grew up with and it means a lot and I want to do it justice.

I think that's a question of scarcity too. Like you said, you didn't have access given where you were in the United States. It's everywhere. And maybe we take that for granted. And so I think that's a fairly inspiring way to kind of COVID that point. But you mentioned though, and this is interesting flow, but you mentioned opportunity can outweigh pay for a single gig. And that's something I get a lot talk about. A time where a low pay, high opportunity gig actually paid off later or paid off. Was it worth it?

In hindsight, I stand by this truly. And I talk to a lot of other people in music about this and we debate this a lot. But I don't think you're going to get a lot of debate as the higher level you go in terms of the person that you talk to in their music career, the debate doesn't exist. And the reason why is because. So if you start off with the fact that our industry is about networking, that hasn't changed, that probably won't change. And that's a good thing. I want it that way. I don't want it to be any way other than that. And if you're the believer of that, and if you're taking advantage of the industry as a core of a means of a network, then the people that hear you play see you play. Because most people listen with their eyes, right? That's the first thing that they do. It doesn't matter how you sound. I mean, you have to look a certain way. And that's a performance. That's the whole point of a performance is that, you know, you look a certain way, you dress away, you move a certain way and you Say things, how you sound is last. And so when you look the part and play the part and then eventually sound the part, people will notice you. And the right people at times will come out and go, I want to play with that drummer or, you know, I want that guitarist in my band. And it has happened to me already at least three or four times where I looked at the venue. First of all, I looked to see the date. Is it on a Saturday? Is it on Fridays? And on Tuesday? All right, where is it? What are the likelihood of people that are going to come out? The more people that come out, the more people probably will be in the music industry or know someone or need someone. And can I afford to take a lower pay? And I would say most of the time we all probably could because, hey, we can always use two to three hours on stage. It's like a good rehearsal for us. But the opportunity, couple of opportunities that I picked up by just simply playing on a gig that wasn't really as high paying, but it paid off because I met a couple of people that happened to be in the, in the need for a drummer for a project that they were doing. They were already in the recording studio, they were already set to go. And like, all we're missing is just a solid drummer. Hey, there are solid drummers everywhere you go. But it's the way that someone looks or the way that someone has presents an energy behind the kit, right? We're all just, I'm just sitting down, right? Everyone else gets to stand around and jump and get on hoops. I'm just sitting. But you have to present an energy behind the kit and a confidence. And they were just looking for someone, you know, basically like me. And so I wholeheartedly believe for any musician, when they look at the right venue, again, that's somewhat subjective, but I think there's a little bit of science behind it. When they look at the day of the week, when they look at who the artist is, does the artist have a following so forth like that, by all means, take the gig, even if it's going to pay you a little bit less, but work at the opportunity, but let it. And I'm going to. But I'm going to also add on to this cliff as a session musician, if that's what you are, let it be known to the people that you're working with that, you know, my interest is also getting myself more and more into the network space. And I'd love it for you. Introduce me to people. And I'm just letting you know I'm willing and open to do this. I'm not saying that, you know, I'm going to play for everybody, but I'm looking for the right opportunities to meet people. So if you're okay with that, please, you know, introduce me to the people that you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you'll be amazed. I mean, people are, they love talking about themselves or projects and the people that they work with. But if you come off that way, people will always help you out. And so yeah, absolutely. Take the opportunity over the pay because that will lead to more gigs. The pay will hit you one time and you may not even get rehired or that band may already have somebody. You could be a fill in. Take the opportunity. You just. The only way to get anywhere is through networking and connections.

With so many bands competing for the same handful of decent rooms. You even said there's lots of drummers available right now. So how has that squeezed or changed what you're willing to accept compared to a few years ago?

Great question. A few years ago I said yes to everything because I wanted to get back on that saddle so bad and I wanted to try to make sure and see doesn't even matter what the genre was. I wanted to get those muscles back. And so it led me to some pretty bad venues and some bad experiences and some people that weren't great to work with for sure. But now I look at it differently because you mentioned the word scarcity just a couple of minutes ago. You've got to factor scarcity into your business plan as a musician. And I don't care if you're a musician or whatever you are, if you're a bass player, if you've been doing this for 30 years. Once you step into this, you're a businessman and you've got to know it. You've got to understand dollars and cents, you've got to understand of your own value. And so the more that you play, the more that you realize and you network and you see who's who and who's not, then you can get picky and choosy. That's my opinion. And that's what happened to me. Now I'm saying no more than I'm saying yes because I understand and realize there are projects that are startups, there are projects with bands that are not serious. They talk about it, but they're not serious. They're not willing to put down what they need to. As far as a commitment is Concerned there's money involved because you got to pay for a recording studio and you've got to sometimes rent out a venue, right? So you've gotta be picky. But at first I say go for everything, play everywhere with everyone and don't worry about it because you're always going to learn something about yourself. You're going to meet somebody from a venue, a booking agent, a manager, you know, the bartender that even knows somebody who's looking for, you know, in my case, a drummer. But say yes to everything. But always filter it down after you become a little bit more comfortable with being on stage. For me personally, this is going to sound very quirky, but I gave myself a hundred hours. So I had a spreadsheet that I kept, and every gig that I booked, I. I listed it, what the venue was, how many hours, what the pay was. It's not an app, it's not a tool, it's not a product that I'd recommend to anybody because it's. It's very time consuming. I'd rather work on your app. But I would say it led me to realize, okay, this is how many hours it took me to get to. Or this is how many gigs it took me to get to 100 hours. Why 100 hours? A friend of mine that's in the music industry told me, you should get 100 hours. Maybe it's 80, maybe it's a thousand. I don't know. That's kind of what I used to gauge myself and realize, where am I at now after 100 hours in. My hundred hours actually luckily ended at the course of. I believe it was the end of 2024. And I thought, wow, okay, what do I do for 2025? I didn't have to think because everything was already done for me because I had so many connections and I had so many people reaching out, asking me, hey, are you available on this date and this date? It kind of handles itself in a way.

Yeah, I want to double back just quickly. You talked about bad venues when you were saying yes to everything. What makes a venue bad?

Well, I would say a couple, aside.

From sound, because we know. We know about that.

Yeah, for sure. Oh, well, a couple things. I would say the stage. So the setup of the stage. Not every venue has a stage. Some venues have a floor.

Corner.

Corner. If you're lucky, some venues will hire a rock band and then tell them you have to keep it under a certain amount of decimals. No, I'm sorry, that's. You need an acoustic guitar player that will play, you know, background noise. That's not really doing that. I've done that. I've been there when. I've been there during a song when they were yelling, you have to be quiet. I like, don't tell a drummer to play quiet. That doesn't make any sense.

Drums are loud.

Drums are loud. Sorry. You know, that's what you get. What makes a venue also bad would be the pay. So you have management or an owner, sometimes that's involved, right? They hire a booking agent, they gonna find me some bands, but I can only pay the entire band $150 and they have to work for three hours. And that's bad because I feel like there are a lot of venues across the country that are bars, even dive bars, but they pay well because they want good people to come in and they want good acts to come in that draw people. You're losing money by offering no money. You're making money by offering more money. And it's a formula that always works. But I'll be damned to the many times that I've seen it myself where people just think the opposite way. I would think those are the reasons why venues bad. I don't mind a small venue. I don't mind that at all. I don't mind if it's dark and intimate. I have no problem with that. But those other things that I mentioned are absolutely non negotiables for me.

You're.

You're very focused on connection and network and connecting. But you also said that connecting with high standard musicians is your number one challenge. Has that ever made you turn down steady money to protect the quality of who you're playing with or the quality of your music?

Now? Yes, now for sure. Yeah. At first. No, at first, like I said, I wanted to play with everybody, but now, yeah, for sure. Because there could be situations and I don't know if it happens a lot, but there could be situations where you have somebody that has money, that is a hobbyist, and it's just looking to play out at a bar, you know, in front of their buddies, and they'll say, hey, I'll pay you know, 500. But it's terrible, you know, and the music is not good and they don't rehearse, but you can make money. And I feel like at this point, for me, especially now in my career, no, I don't want to do that. I want to protect that reputation that I have. And. But you have to be careful with that. You have to know who you're playing with. And this happens quite a bit because again, the hobbyist mentality is a dangerous one.

Yeah, I've been in that situation. I'm kind of in that situation now, playing my own residencies. But I approaching those moments is, what is this situation teaching me? And now because we're experienced, we can say, what could this possibly teach me? Sometimes the answer seems empty. And you have an opportunity to not try to enter into a situation that's not going to afford you anything aside from the money. What am I going to learn? Who am I going to meet? Once you're in it, you can maybe scrape the bottom of the barrel and find something to pick up. But I agree with you that, you know, it's important to look at the quality of who you're playing with and where you're playing. So you mentioned spreadsheet before, and I actually did that myself. That was actually the basis for why I started what I'm doing. I had about 140 gigs in 2015, maybe 130 in 2016. And I put them all on a spreadsheet and I was tracking stage time divided by pay or pay divided by stage time, and I would get that value. But what I wasn't doing was tracking setup, rehearsal, all the different things that go into that. And I started adding that and it was like a light bulb came on because one gig that seemed to pay the same as another was actually paying less than $5 an hour. So, you know, that caused me to be able to make choices. But that's me. But we have that in common. But if you tracked every gig's actual take home, like after gas gear wear time, do you think your best gigs by pay would still be your best gigs overall?

No. No. Because I think if you're a musician who is tracking every pay, every dollar, then what happens is you'll start chasing gigs and you're going to be forced to chase those gigs and then you're going to take some of these ridiculously terrible empty opportunity types of gigs. I also factor Miles, right? I also factor setup time, especially for a drummer. I mean, I've gotta, I gotta get there before everybody else. Right, but you have to factor in all those things as well. But rehearsals, to me, we haven't really talked about this yet, but I feel like rehearsal time is something that people believe is such a necessity. Now what I mean by that is they say, okay, we're gonna be playing a gig in a month. And we want to get together four times, right?

So.

So over the next month, we'll get together once a week, and we're gonna rehearse the set list. And that's fine. That's normal, right? You think nothing of it, and you go, okay, two hours of my. Of my time to rehearse and get these songs down. If you're a decent musician, okay, decent, you don't need to rehearse a single minute with anyone. You can listen to the songs, and even if they're originals, they can send you their recordings, and you can figure out where the notes go, where the breaks go, the structure of a song in probably two minutes. So that. And if you're doing covers or a tribute, I mean, it's literally right there for you. The problem is, I would rather drive farther and spend more money on gas for a quality rehearsal that's going to focus on the actual performance. What I mean by that is rehearsals are so dangerous because people get lost and they want the nuance. They start critiquing little things. They go, no, let's make this change. Let's end it this way. If you don't have a project where there's a band leader or a musical director, you're going to be lost. And those rehearsals become an effort and frustration. And so you're wasting time and money. Again, I'd rather drive farther, an hour and a half to a gig. And if the rehearsal was five minutes from me, I'd rather not go to the rehearsal. But if I'm going to go to the rehearsal, I want it to be based on the performance. What do I mean by that? Is. Okay, after the second song, here's how we start. Here's how we enter. We're going to speak. After the second song, I'm going to say these things. Here's the. These are the spots that I'm moving to. It's choreographed. It's a performance. And the people that actually rehearse the actual performance, not the songs. And so this is something that is important to me. And I asked, by the way, I asked those questions, and I believe in that. And to this day, I still been let down. To this day, I still get. Oh, no. We focus on the performance, and then we get to the rehearsal, and it's just people critiquing each other on, well, that's the wrong chord. Yeah. And noodling and noodling, and they go off. And then when they go live. Cliff, I think, what song is this? I don't understand what happened? And so rehearsals are a big part of that factor. At first, I didn't put any credence into them at all. I just thought, it's great to be playing, it's great to be learning songs. But the more I did that and the more I started to understand that your own time that you spend listening to the songs, absorbing them and feeling them, is much more important than being a rehearsal. And I'm not saying you shouldn't ever rehearse, but it's just the time that is spent in rehearsals is mostly a waste of time. Unless you have a musical director or a lead that's really organized.

Well, you set up the problem at the start when you said four or four rehearsals of two hours each or whatever. There's an arbitrary number that's picked by someone that says, oh, if we put four. Four rehearsals together, surely we're going to come out of that with a product that's presentable. But then it becomes an obligation. Even. Even though the number was arbitrary. And what you're really doing there is, like you said, I don't have to practice all about that bass, you know? So what you're doing is you're overcoming someone else's anxiety about the gig. They're worried that it's not going to come together. I can empathize with a singer wanting to feel the landscape points of a song and how it's going to be a little bit like a. It's like you're existing a little bit like a cat, just really sensitive about what's going on in the room. But what I loved about what you said is focusing on the actual performance choreographed. That's just a great takeaway. And I'm thinking, what we're arriving at is have clear objectives going into the rehearsal as to why it's two hours. I mean, ask why and then ask why a couple times and get those objectives for what you're trying to leave. We want to run the two originals that, you know, these first two of the 10 that we're going to do and figure out. That's just much more. And I'll tell you what, man, when I get to a rehearsal, I don't care who it's with, a friend, it doesn't matter to me. Someone starts noodling and I'm waiting for them to get done. The death knell has rung. It's over. Like, I. Because I've got other things to do. I've got a kid at home. I've got things, you know, And I just feel like, oh, I get that we want to relax. There's a time and place for that. And it should also be dictated. We're going to take the end of the rehearsal 15, 30 minutes to socialize, or the beginning at the front of the rehearsal, wherever that is. Those are really good points. What you want it to be versus what you actually do for money. Now what would you say that difference is when you started into music and where you are now, what, you know, what does that bring up for you?

I mean, if I was to really think about it, I would say starting out in music and when I was playing. So I, I started playing with my dad at like weddings when I was like 12 years old. And he hired me because he wanted to teach me the value of money and how hard music is. I think he did it almost as antithesis to like this is going to be. The way I get him out of music is by putting him into music. And it was like a punishment that I, you know, I think is what he wanted. It almost worked. But I was on stage and I was like visualizing playing for Deep Purple, not playing folk songs, you know, at a wedding at 4 o' clock in the morning as a 12 year old. And I've always wanted to just do this full time. This is my passion. This is all I wanted to do. And money never came into my mind. Like it never entered my mind. It never, I never thought, first of all, I never thought you can be a millionaire, you know, by playing music. Because these guys didn't look like millionaires. They looked like they were homeless for the most part. These the biggest stars that I've ever seen. I thought, what is wrong with them? I mean, look at the clothes they're wearing. You know, that's, that's the immigrant, you know, response. Because here I am wearing a tuxedo when I play, you know, on the weekends. But once I started realizing how big the industry is and how much money, especially in the 80s growing up, how much money these guys were making, even a one hit wonder, they made enough money for the rest of their lives, right? But growing up, I realized that it wasn't about the money. Because being a musician is being free. And being, and being free is about living a life that you don't have to apologize and answer to people that you're not making $100,000 a year or it's okay if you're living in a studio and it's okay if you're passionate about your songs. And that's what you care about and you connect with other musicians to this day. As I'm older, I'm even. I'm doubling down on that. Even much more so I'm doubling down. The fact that what you do as a musician is a direct result of who you are. And if you're okay with yourself and you're in your own skin, if you do it and you have a talent that's such a rare talent that anybody can have to play music. You play keyboards and sing. I can't play keyboards and sing. I'm. I'm envious of that. And, and, but if I had that talent, right, or if I could play guitar or whatever it may be, I'd be writing songs all day long and I would be, you know, absolutely in. Into what I'm doing, regardless of how much money I could make. So I think when it comes to money in music, it's very confusing. There's a gray area. I almost say the same thing about being a doctor. You go to school for all those years, you go into debt, and then you realize like, oh my gosh, you know, now I'm supposed to make money. Why did I get into this in the first place? It's because I want to help people. But doctors are notoriously supposedly rich. And so I feel like music is kind of the same way. I feel people get lost in the business of it. But you still have to be a businessman or a businesswoman. You still have to understand the flow of money and your value. But you can't be doing it strictly for money, right?

Money is a means to a goal. I've known that since my teen years. And at the same time, I feel like sometimes we give that away too much like that. Like we overshoot it and we kind of lose attention. But you haven't done that. You've used spreadsheets, and so have I. So are you a full time musician or you do something else?

I am a full time musician, yeah. And I would say it took a while to build a network. It took a while to build kind of understanding my value and my, you know, getting to a point where you have rates, but those rates aren't always going to be, like I said earlier, you know, steadfast. Sometimes you have to take something that's a little bit less that you can. That you could see that could be an opportunity.

What did you do before you were ftm?

I worked primarily in two industries. I started off in healthcare. Now I'm not a nurse or a doctor, but I worked in, on contracting and sales and medical device. And then I also got to a chance to work in the construction industry and really kind of married the two. And so working in health care, working in corporate America actually helped me be a better musician. And it really made me speak better, it made me listen better, it made me appreciate music even more so because what you have to do in corporate America, we all know this, you have to pretend, you know, you have to play some games and you have to be willing to put on a smile. But when you do that enough, you kind of realize like, hey, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. And I don't value this in the same way, but it allowed me and afforded me the ability to get back and to do what I do and love the most, which is music. But it also disciplined me in a lot of different ways because you have to make meetings. Musicians are known for being flaky. You can't do that when you have a full time job. You can't do that when your scheduled meeting or a call or a customer is asking you to come in and solve a problem. You can't do that. And so I take that same corporate sort of that mindset into being a musician.

That's fantastic. I'm curious if the World cup has penetrated your gig world at all, as if anything events coming up that you might play or is it just you're playing a bar, restaurant gig and it happens to be on the tv?

I think it's, I think it's the second one. Yeah. I love soccer. I love the World Cup. My dad and I would always, you know, watched, you know, together and it's actually here in the United States and a lot of it is in here in Los Angeles too, but on the war on the West Coast, I would say no. I think a lot of it is just, you know, a lot of times you have things in the background, whether it's the World cup, it could have been a playoff football playoff game or it could have been, you know, a baseball game. It's just something. And I always peek under the, I love sports. So I always have to peek under the corner of my eye as well to see if my team is playing with the score.

Yeah, I want to double back on the full time musician thing though. So you were doing healthcare, you were in construction. Can you. Do you remember? I don't want to say the day, but the year, the month where you embarked on the full time musician thing and said, I don't have to do this corporate thing anymore.

Yeah, I had a job. It was not that long ago. I think it was about a year and a half ago. I had a job that I hated with a passion, paid really well, and it just took away my mental space because I was trying to also focus on music, and I was trying to focus on going to rehearsals in the evening and, you know, whether I was doing gigs and I was playing with a couple of different, you know, bands at the time, and they ended up basically letting me go. It was. It was a contract position, and I never felt so much relief, and I never. In my entire career, I've never been let go from a job. And the moment that it hit, I realized, I don't think I have to do this anymore. If I do anything, it would be maybe part time, and I still have the skill set to do it, and I can do it from home. And I realized, no, I could actually focus my. All my efforts and everything that I wanted to do, which was music, and I want to do it, and life's short. And the one thing that we have to realize is that if you have a passion about something I'm using music is only as an example. But if you got a passion about something, you don't have to wait until you're good at it to do it. You have to do it and then be good at it. You can't be good at it and then do it. It's. It doesn't work that way. We've been taught wrong. Fortunately, I was good enough as a musician to move forward and want to do it. But I'm still getting better. I'm still practicing every day. I. I'm not nowhere. I'm nowhere near where I want to be. But, yeah, that was the moment for me when I. It was. It was such a great feeling. It was a sense of relief. But the first thing I could focus on was, wait a minute. I can get to do music now on my terms, and that's powerful. But I needed to go through that experience, which was very frustrating. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to having a job that they just did not like.

Can you really leave work? You know, because you need to be able to put something down. We're almost at time. I want to thank you so much. What do you have coming up in the next couple of weeks in terms of performances?

So everything right now is with the Crescent Blue. This particular coming Saturday, we're playing at the Viper Room on Sunset Boulevard, which is kind of Cool. And then the week after we play at the San Diego Fair. They do a good job there at the Del Mar Fairgrounds. They've got like a big main stage, we play there. And then I think in End of July we played back in LA with Crescent Blue and it's always fun to play with those guys and I enjoy it. It's actually that band is so good live. It's so rare. The recordings are good, but they're even better live. So that's a compliment. But that's what I have going on right now for the most part. Other than that. I work at my craft every day, Cliff. I practice every day. So I walk to a studio and I work for a couple of hours a day and I just beat myself up. So that's kind of been on the horizon for me and it will always be. And I'm open to things coming up if they do. I'm open to it, but calculated.

I have this notion of sending you something I do on a click track and maybe we do something combined like try to do that or send you some tracks. I really had that notion with multiple musicians because I've dealt with everything from, you know, guitarists to classical guitarists to singers, all sorts of different steel pan drummer, you know, so. And I've always wanted to, okay, now I want to play with this person, but I can't. But we only have 60 seconds. So with that I want to say thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you found this fun, appreciate your time so much and enjoy your gigs this upcoming week. Thank you so much.

Thank you Cliff. Thanks for having me. I had a lot of fun.

Konstantin Moyseyev A couple of things from this conversation. I keep coming back to his two category venue framework.

A bar that happens to have live.

Music versus a music venue that happens.

To have a bar.

That distinction alone changes how you walk into a conversation with a booking contact and his point about the 100 hour mark that the network you build getting there is the thing that eventually makes the gig pipeline run itself. That's the whole game. If you're a working musician and you want to track your gigs, your pay, your venues and eventually email a venue directly from the app using an industry proven template. Check out Money Gigs link in the show notes if this episode resonated, share it with one musician who needs to hear it. And please give it a five star review on the podcast platform you're using.

That's how we grow.

I'm Cliff Adams. Thanks for listening to the Money gigs podcast.